Allen McCampbell: They understand. There will be challenges and that’s fine. You should be in a position and you should have a team that’s willing to challenge you on why you would do that because there is a consequence, regardless there’s a consequence of that action. It could be good. It could be bad, but there is a consequence. What you do is basically, any decision you make you forecast a range of results. Here is the best that can happen. Here is the worst that can happen. And here’s the probability and you make your decision. So you have to do that.

Jenny Carter: That’s good to know.

Allen McCampbell. Put a team around you though and the team has to be strong enough and they have to believe in you enough that they can be very honest without fear of reprisal. Just because you disagree with me doesn’t mean that you are not on the team. That means that you have some genuine concerns and we need to talk them through.

Jenny Carter: If somebody doesn’t disagree at some point, you don’t have the right players in place.

Allen McCampbell: ‘Yes man’ concept is something that’s very destructive; it’s where the person always agrees. They’re not a player. They’re really not. The ‘yes man’ concept that I believe in is the person that will also say no if they disagree. They’ll say yes if they agree, but you know they will say no if they disagree. What you don’t need is; in selection, don’t mimic yourself. You don’t need a whole bunch of people that look like you, think like you, act like you. Secondly, you need people on that diverse team that are willing to share their opinions. They’re willing to straightforwardly speak to you, be honest and be straight so that you get the best information you can make. A decision that’s made by an individual: the individual is held accountable. The best information you can get is from those around it that know and you can make a better decision.

Jenny Carter: That’s right. What would you say about; there is always a question about the male/female role in big business and the ‘glass ceiling’ and that kind of thing. You’ve had first hand experience with that. What’s your feeling on that and how did that impact you or did it?

Allen McCampbell: Half of my career was spent in; we called it personnel, human resources. I went through a lot of the legislation, what you’re dealing with, fair employment practices, etc and watched the evolution take place. I’ve been around a long time Jenny. Male/female: early on, it was just the role was never perceived to be a female role. It was always supposed to be the male role. Generally speaking, the females that I saw not only in my company, my industry, etc.; it really seemed to surface and sharp as a tack, a couple of characteristics. One was they had maybe never married. Number two, if they did, they never had any children, which meant no break in service, etc. and work. I say that in retrospect because I went through a period of probably 20 years when I used to look at them and say what and I can almost pick the pictures. Some of this was really legislated. Sometimes you have to push it through. But then the culture and the environment started changing and the levels of accomplishment started changing and the levels of opportunity because you had those needs etc and you had some very knowledgeable people within your ranks that can move into jobs. So, part of it’s a nudge to say this is what you’re supposed to do. And it is right thing to do. But the other is the recognizing of the competency and talent and let it start happening. The best moves always take competence, confidence and open the opportunity for her because she would lead the way for others. What you didn’t need is failures and you didn’t need to create failures. But you did not need to create successes that were hollow and false.They had to be real. They were there. All you had to do is just tap it. And I hadn’t thought about this until you asked me this question. When I retired, I had seven Vice Presidents that reported to me. Five of them were female. I had two in the Franklin, three in Nashville that were female and two others.

Jenny Carter: How would that have been different twenty years before?

Allen McCampbell: There would have been none. The competency is there. All they need is the opportunity. Now, right brain/left brain; a female thinks differently from a male. So there is nothing wrong with that. The hardest thing to do is to try to figure out who is thinking what. But when it comes to the necessary actions to get the job done a female is far less hesitant than a male. A female is far less hesitant to what it might look like to others than a male. So from the decision making point, the male is not as decisive as a female. Sometimes that’s branded as ‘boy, she is really brutal’. But it is not so much that as it is they figure out this is what I have to do, let’s get on with it. They’re less apt to dance around with it. They make their decision and move on.

Jenny Carter: What about Hispanic and African-American and the whole diverse culture thing? What would you say to people who are in that position trying to move up?

Allen McCampbell: It’s the same. The paths have been cleared. One of my female vice presidents was minority; an African American. I think that two elements have to be really looked at as we’ve moved to where we are and as we move forward. The first is there is a paving of the way and that occurred either by force or just doing the right things. The second is, as you move forward from that point in time, which we can say today, that the story has to be told externally. It has already been told internally. I think there are a lot of exceptions to that. But out there who knows it and how do they see it, etc? One of things I think you need to do is not only do you have the leadership growing in your company whether it be female, minority, Hispanic, etc. or male, is you plug them into the community and community activities. And who are they representing? They are representing your company. Get them out there so people know and they know who you are. It really is a rounding experience. My community activities have afforded me so much pleasure over the years.

Jenny Carter: I am so glad you brought that up. What kind of a piece is that of great leadership?

Allen McCampbell: Yeah, it’s so important. You don’t just share it inside. If you do have the talent and people recognize that they want…: President of Junior Achievement: And I have been on the boards of Better Business Bureau, Baptist Hospital, a lot of different organizations. They wanted me there. It didn’t represent the company but they wanted me there because of what I can bring to the table; President of the Foundation here, on the foundation board. It is important to get out there and work with them. What that does to you is that works on that other side, here is the corporate end world, here is the other side. I know from my experience wit the Better Business Bureau a lot about how that works and the value of good credit/ bad credit, good service/ bad service, etc, Board of the Baptist hospital: I was on the board there when Baptist Hospital was sold to Saint Thomas. I know the value of getting yourself overextended. What do you do? Junior Achievement…

Jenny Carter: Things that you would not learn inside your company. It would be very difficult.

Allen McCampbell: No. Exactly. President Junior Achievement was a tremendous experience, working with youngsters, etc. and being in the classroom. So if you want people to know you’re walking the talk get people out there involved in the community. Secondly, the community needs it. If you don’t do it, who else will? If you don’t support the symphony, where is the symphony going to get its support? If you don’t do the walkathon, whatever, if you don’t support it who else will? So, the community side is very important.